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I would like to start discussions on the list of issues that are important for citizen taxpayers.
Hafner’s name sure is coming up alot. Especially on the blogs and local political websites. Apparently someone considers him a strong contender to win a city council seat.
Del Ray Rokke got 2,400 votes (or about 40%) in less than three months of part time campaigning two years ago. He should be a shoe-in this election.
Mr. Hafner was one of the best teachers and coaches that I ever had. He will make a great leader in Maplewood.
The race is on for the future of Maplewood politics. We must be the best that we can be to place in the top of this race. Our families and our campaigns helpers must also be number one when out there in the public. Good luck to all of you guys !
Mayoral Candidate John Wykoff.
I have just met Mr. Hafner. I wasn’t impressed. He came off angry, mad, had fire in his eyes and called other candidates names. We have one of those people on the council now and he did not contribute one constructive issue his whole time on the council. We don’t need another one or two of those people.
We have decided to post an anonymous blog so that people would not be in fear of reprisals, or discrimination, or harrassment for their statements.
“Anonymous” claims that I (Dave Hafner) “came off angry, mad, had fire in his (my) eyes and called other candidates names.
You can see the downside of posting an anonymous blog. It is very difficult, if not oftentimes impossible, to determine who is fabricating the truth, as well as hold anyone accountable, when people make claims “anonymously.” Still we will hold to this philosophy that an anonymous blog is better than the other alternative. Most of the time people can determine who is honest and who is not IF they get both sides of the story. Both sides of the story can be provided on an anonymous blog. From there we can only hope that most individuals will demonstrate the ability to separate fact from fiction, and truth from lies.
I do find it interesting that it was not until the sixth post that character assassination crept into our blog. As long as the citizens of Maplewood support this behavior by voting for council members who rely almost solely upon it, character assassination will be the order of the day.
Council member John Nephew discusses my “somewhat lengthy” presentation to the city council on Feb. 12th of 2007. It is common knowledge that there is a 5 minute “time limit” during the Visitor Presentation portion of the council meetings. No buzzer went off nor did the mayor (or anyone else on the council) notify me that my “time was up.” If the cameras in the city council chamber were capable of panning the crowd you would see that I had everyone’s full attention and that I did not waste anyone’s time
If what I had to say did not relect well on Mr. Nephew, then I can understand his feeling that the presentation was “rather lengthy.” The truth has a way of expanding time. Especially when you are on the wrong side of it.
On Feb. 3rd of 2007, Mr. Hafner addressed the attendees of the Mayor’s Open Forum. Mr. Nephew was kind enough to put the recorded presentation on his web site. Once again, he makes claims: that Dave Hafner worked himself “up into something of a rage.” There is no evidence of this anywhere on the recorded CD that Mr. Nephew brags about. There is however documentation of the citizens that attended that meeting. Of the approximately 20 people that were there, including the mayor and city manager, you will find no one (with the possible exception of Michele Nephew, John’s wife) that will support this claim.
I would not waste any time thinking about that gamer who has been gaming the party faithfull for about four years. They see now that he is just a power-hungry knave who twists the truth to make a trap for fools. He does it so well that it appears the mad voters coalition went out of business. I suspect he will do the same and likely will only be a one-termer.
I worked with Dave Hafner on the Saint Paul Fire Department. I have lived in Maplewood for decades and was delighted to hear that he is running for office. I look forward to voting for him and the two others who are running with him.
Will Rossbach touts his “experience” as being crucial to the success of the council and the city of Maplewood. IF this is true (and I don’t believe that it is) then there should be no problem. Will retains his seat on the council whether he wins the mayoral race or not. He’s not going anywhere. And neither is his experience.
Anonymous blogged at 12:51 in the morning. It seems clear to me who was mad, angry, and had fire in his eyes! Maybe anonymous can also lay claim to seeing Mr. Hafner “foam at the mouth.”
Anonymous’ blog impresses me as being very Frostbrandish.
Anonymous states that we don’t need another one “or two” of those people. Who else was anonymous suggesting? Who else is angry and mad with fire in their eyes? DelRay Rokke? Or possibly Ken Smart?
At the council meeting of August 24th the subject of burning and recreational fires (and all of Will’s other pet objectives) have resurfaced. Now they are going to start up a work shop to rehash the same old issues all over again. The people have spoken and Will Rossbach simply will not listen. Once again Will Rossbach is forcing his personal agenda down the citizens’ throats. How long will the council continue to cater to Maplewood’s No. 1 troublemaker? And how long will the citizens of Maplewood continue to put up with Will Rossbach?
I picked up a flyer that listed this url. There was nothing specific on the flyer or the website about any of the beliefs of these candidates. I will be voting and I need to see exactly where you stand on issues. Please list what you want to do or the changes you want to make if elected. I appreciate that you might be “hard working” but I need to know what you will be working hard at it. There are four voters in my houselhold and if you want them we’ll need to know specifics.
Dear Informed Voter,
Thank you for your interest. The links on my page provides some specifics to questions asked by the media. Hopefully this weekend, an update to may page titled “What I Think About . . . ” will be available and will start to publish some specifics on topics of specific interest to Maplewood.
Here are some specifics that I will be working hard at:
1) First will be focused on efficiently run council meetings and we will be listening respectfully to citizens and answering their questions during the visitor presentation portion of the meetings. We will also listen respectfully when citizens are talking about specific agenda items – we want to get away from the interruptions, facial expressions and sidebar conversations that occur when citizens are speaking.
2) I am a fiscal conservative and I will be looking for opportunities for us to improve the productivity and service of our city staff before I look for additional revenue sources. Call me at 651-315-8303 if you want to discuss more. But for instance, I believe the Community Center needs to operate at a breakeven leve operationally saving us up to $1 million annually.
3) Along with the above, I have a 5 X 5 plan where city spending will decrease by 0.1 percentage point of our taxable base each year for five years. I know this is not a large change, but I believe that we need and want good city services and I am not out to slash the budget – but we will still see better use of our tax dollars under my plan.
4) I believe city government provides four key services important to all: Police, fire, roads, and parks. Those are spending priorities for me, but we may want to look at ways to improve productivity in these areas as well. For instance, on roads, I support reversing the city decision to only rebuild roads in the city – I believe some resurfacing/sealing of roads is effective and we know this approach costs only 20% as much as rebuidling a road.
5) I am a libertarian when it comes to private property rights – I do not support ordinances restricting citizens use of their yards for their family enjoyment. I do believe in following state law on recreational fires and wetland setbacks for instance. But I think it was absolutely silly for us (Maplewood) to spend over a year trying to decide how to restrict recreational fires. A little common sense would go a long way (and yes, I realize it is not that common).
I hope this helps somewhat, but I am more than happy to talk with you more if you would find that helpful. I am also interested in the ideas of others so if you have specific suggestions, please share!
Thanks again.
Ken
Yes, that is EXACTLY what I was looking for, thank you! You and your group will get our votes and I will be informing friends also.
On September 3rd, “An Informed Voter” asked a good question “about the beliefs of these [you three] candidates”. And I agree – beliefs and ethics like honesty and openness are important.
One of our city councilman’s website states that 15 of the 18 candidates in this election were seeking the DFL endorsement. Including all three candidates from the SMART team. I found this curious since none of you listed DFL party affiliation when filing your Election Candidate Information Form or your Affidavit of Candidacy. Don’t feel too bad; of the 18 candidates only 3 did claim party affiliation: Llanas(D), Martin(D), Sletten(I). (And Sletten still sought DFL endorsement – go figure).
Now, I don’t vote a straight party line – but I do vote for HONESTY and OPENNESS. I do expect a candidate to “say what they mean” (consistently) and then “do what they said” (consistently). One of the mayoral candidates (who did seek DFL support but didn’t register as such) claims to “… [have] concerns with the economic situation we [in Maplewood] are currently experiencing … we will have to make some very difficult decisions as to how to allocate our limited resources.”
Now in my mind, that means:
1) Consider all options that might save taxpayer dollars.
2) Seek the most cost effective bids, regardless of Union or party affiliations.
3) Represent the interests of Maplewood’s Citizens ABOVE the interests of Unions.
4) Go to any lengths to ensure continued quality services to Maplewood Citizens.
The same mayoral candidate I quoted above answered questions from the SPLF as follows:
Q. Do you support privatization of city services?
A. “No. I believe we can provide higher quality services with our own staff.”
Q. Would you support project labor agreements?
A. “Yes. However with Maplewood’s Prevailing Wage Ordinance our projects should already be covered.”
Q. In a strike situation, would you vote to hire replacement workers?
A. “No.”
Q. Do you support collective bargaining?
A. “Yes.”
Q. Will you honor agreements reached though collective bargaining?
A. “I have consistently voted to approve Maplewood’s union contracts.”
To my thinking, this candidate is at mixed interests. He cannot serve the taxpayers that elected him and pay his salary – WHILE catering to the Union or the Party that supported his campaign. We currently pay the second highest tax rate in the metro and yet our city is still $75 million in debt, our property values have declined, tax revenues are down, businesses are closing, and unemployment continues to climb. I think it’s time we move beyond this candidate’s blind allegiance to the labor unions.
Gentlemen, I know that you claim to be fiscally conservative, but I would like EACH of you to respond to this classic political dichotomy.
Mr. Rokke, I was genuinely at a loss regarding candidates for the upcoming election and fearful for the future of Maplewood – until I read your Filing Statement. Not the one with the State – the one on your website. Most of the other candidates talk about the ‘feel-good’ stuff like civic commitment and an openness to public input. But words are cheap! Your two running-mates (Smart and Hafner) got me to thinking that “maybe these three are for real”. But DelRay, you nailed it. You get it!
I don’t mean to preach to the choir – but on the off chance that there are voters still searching for answers to the upcoming primary and have found their way to this blog – I HAVE to reiterate a couple of Rocky’s bullets. They are not ‘feel-good’, they are not flowery. They are real, practical and necessary.
1) Our growing debt is already 2% of the TOTAL real-estate value in the city.
The current City Council recently approved THREE – 3% raises (that’s 9.27% in ONE YEAR) to the highest-paid managerial positions in the city; during a time that many residents were losing their businesses, jobs, or homes.
This means that -
2) Essentially, 25% of our tax revenue is required to pay JUST the interest.
In other words -
3) If our city had no expenses, it would still take 6-YEARS to pay off our dept.
…six years that is if -
4) Our Real-Estate values hadn’t tumbled by about 25% in the last two years.
…six years if -
5) Our friends, neighbors, relatives and co-workers weren’t losing their jobs,
their homes and the ability to contribute to our tax base.
6) Gone are the days of prime development; we can no longer expect huge
revenues from building permits.
…this debt exists because for more than 10 years…
7) Our City Council has been spending WAY beyond their means.
…and yet:
—————————————-
For years there’s been way too much finger-pointing. I choose not to continue this petty, unprofessional and nonproductive practice. Nor do I have the time or willingness to review every motion, second, or voting record that may have contributed to this financial mess. For my part, I will simply eliminate all incumbents from consideration on September 15th and November 3rd (CARDINAL, KOPPEN, LONGRIE, ROSSBACH, CAVE, and JUENEMANN).
And I would encourage all responsible citizens to do the same. It’s time for new eyes, new ideas, and new voices.
Just a response to the fact that DelRay, Dave and I sought DFL endorsement. City elections are supposedly non-partisan so events like the DFL event seemed odd to me – but I am not a politician. So in attending the event, we had two thoughts. First, we did not want to be exclusionary – attend some invited events and decline others. So our goal is to attend events where invited if we believe that Maplewood citizens are part of the audience. Second, we want to be open and provide our real views on the issues – our message does not change from one audience to another. We know not everyone will agree with us, but we believe we do represent some common sense views that many Maplewood citizens agree with. We offer what we think is some common sense change to voters.
DelRay’s filing statement clearly shows opportunities for change. Dave Haftner has first had experience with the city council making decisions that had an adverse impact on his neighborhood. I believe we need to expect better performance from our civil servants and need to drive productivity in government services.
Thank you for your interest and support.
Ken – I agree, city elections and city officials should be non-partisan – which is really what peaked my interest. Your response, rationale and decision to attend the DFL invitation makes perfect sense.
Personally, I’d like to see less partisan politicking at the state and national level as well. I stand behind my original challenge: Our elected officials should be bound to represent their constituency ONLY – independent of any special interest groups, unions or party affiliation.
In light of that, I am glad to see that the SMART team has little if any campaign contributions or affiliations that would compromise their ability to serve the best interest of the citizens of Maplewood. Next year, our city officials are going to be faced with some VERY difficult decisions; let’s elect three with the least amount of baggage.
I was playing ball with my littlest one and when we returned to our driveway, there was campaign literature in the flag of my mailbox. I have been doing lit drops since I was a small one and I know that we aren’t allowed to put political literature in or on people’s mailboxes. The other problem is that we live in North St. Paul and are not even eligible to vote in this election. I can see how it would be confused with Maplewood because we are the furthest south in North St. Paul. Please train your well-meaning volunteers on some of these basics. Thanks. Good luck in your efforts.
Dear North St. Paul Neighbor,
Thank you for your note. You can tell we and our volunteers are political novices. We have energetic and well meaning volunteers, but will be sure to cover what is permissable before going out again. Thank you for taking time to mention this.
Ken
Erik Hjelle is NOT behind our Team,
There have been rumors that Erik Hjelle is the one behind the Smart, Rocky and Hafner team. I believe this rumor started with John Nephew – the noted blogger who rarely gets his facts straight – but he likes to have fun with his blog.
Here are facts straight up:
1) Although I knew who Erik Hjelle was, I had never met him or spoke with him until AFTER I filed for Mayor.
2) After I filed, I did get some input and advice from Erik. I also got input and advice from John Nephew.
3) Erik has not and is not behind our campaign any more than John Nephew is behind our campaign.
4) The people who encouraged me to run for Mayor have no ties to any current or past candidates or any current or past city employees. Our supporters are your typical hardworking citizen taxpayers in Maplewood who want to take back our city from the politicians.
5) John Nephew knows the above facts and refuses to publish them on his blog – but the facts are the facts.
6) Dave, Rocky and I are running to bring teamwork, common sense, and positive attitudes to our city. I fully expect to be able to work well with all council members and city staff.
7) We are not running with the intention of getting “rid” of anyone – nor do our supporters think we need to get “rid” of anyone.
There is always a “silly season” in an election cycle and the week or two before an election is when this happens so we are now in “silly season.” So just wanted to set the record straight.
Ken
Hey Anonymous#1 (from 8/15/09): Checkout the JohnNephew blog of 9/10. John’s trying [really hard] to convey Dave a fiscal flip-flopper. This claim is completely bogus. The video clip shows a CALM, RATIONAL Dave ‘welcoming’ a small increase in his property tax because 1) It didn’t even come from the City of Maplewood, and 2) These are difficult times – financially – and we may have to pay a little more to maintain the services we receive.
Dave goes on to acknowledge that the new city council has made some improvements. Personally, I think we need more citizens and elected officials – like Dave – that AREN’T just always complaining. We need more rational, fair-minded people that also recognize accomplishments and jobs well done.
But it appears that “complacency” is not one of Dave’s characteristics. Despite the complements Dave shared in Nephew’s 2007 video, he still sees room for improvement. He still thinks that there is too much politicking and secrecy in Maplewood. And in response, he didn’t just throw his hat in the ring to run for councilman – he found and joined a team of candidates that can make a REAL change.
I had the opportunity to take in the Mayoral forum this morning at St. John’s hospital. I have lived and worked in Maplewood for the last year and a half and this was my first exposure to the history and characters that have made up our city leadership. I will say, I was thoroughly impressed with Ken Smart. In my position I work with a number of small business owners in the area, so to hear Ken recognize how we need to attract and retain small business into our community was refreshing. It looks that Maplewood needs a fresh perspective in our city offices to make some positive change. I plan to cast my vote for Ken Smart and team on September 15th. Good luck to you!!
The postal service lists their regulations on their website and their regulations stricly prohibit placement of anything without postage on it inside a mailbox to avoid tampering with the delivered mail. They also prohibit placement of anything outside of the mailbox which will impede the delivery of the mail by the postal carrier. Most postal carriers know these rules and will report violations if they occur. A flyer tucked under or along-side a mailbox does not impede delivery of the mail by the carrier.
Political hacks with big money campaign donations (dues to repay) often lay false claims of illegal activities of thier opponents just to make it appear as though they are not vote worthy because a number of people believe them. What they won’t tell you is that the person who put something on the outside of your mailbox is probably one of your neighbors who is legitimately supporting a candidate who only has your interests in mind and is not spending your union dues to let the postal carrier do their campaign work for them.
The forum of the Mayoral candidates is replaying all through the election almost continuously this weekend of the cable access channels. Watch how three of the candidates support the Rocky and Hafner team for the City Council seats and none of the others mentioned any support for any other Council candidates. By their silence on the matter, you got to believe that all six are probably hoping to work with Hafner and Rocky if they are elected. I can’t blame them–Rokke (Rocky) is a Finance Specialist with over twenty years of experience who also won the most recent 3M Pyramid of Excellence award. That is like winning an Oscar for best performance. And Hafner is currently a Firefighter, but a former professional baseball player that spent more than a dozen years Coaching and Teaching Math, Science and Biology. They most likely can watch over the City Finances, Public Safety, Parks, Recreation and Open Spaces better than anybody else currently running or on the Council.
Also, as you watch and listen closely to all the candidates comments on the questions and it is clear that the smartest choice is to vote for Ken Smart for Mayor too. And at the end of the forum, one of the other candidates even endorsed Ken and asked that his supporters vote for Smart on his behalf. I can see why he would do this as Ken Smart is a Certified Internal Auditor and a CPA with more than a quarter century of experience. He is the VP of the Maplewood Atheletics Association and clearly his only special interest concern is preseving the future of Maplewood for his own family of six six children.
Hi,
I welcome the many candidates who ave involved this year, because it reflects a healthy political and community climate. But I’m curious about a couple of things. I don’t know Ken Smart, but he seems like a pretty good guy. I’d like more detail on his background and accomplishments, but I’m still learning. I’m concerned a little because he said he didn’t know Eric Hjelle and that Hjelle wasn’t backing his campaign. But his running mate, Dave Hafner, seems pretty close to Hjelle. Mr. Hafner started a website that seems dedicated to criticizing Will Rossbach – at times inaccurately. And the same site has been a forum for Eric Hjelle. It’s obvious that Hjelle and Dave Hafner are close, so how could Ken Smart not be close as well? Or at least not have known that? Is Ken that unconnected to his running mate that he had never met one of Dave Hafner’s close political allies? Or am I missing something here?
Dear Maplewood Voter of Sept 14): We are all trying to learn as much as possible about ALL candidates; consequently I’m intrigued by something you wrote: “Mr. Hafner started a website that seems dedicated to criticizing Will Rossbach – at times inaccurately.” I am not aware of this site; could you re-post with it’s Link? It’s not that I would condone any inaccurate criticize but – as with any website, blog or newspaper – readers must be vigilante in their attempts to separate truth from lies. If what you say is true of Mr. Hafner, I would want to know what this council candidate is saying about any and all other candidates.
No offense intended, but by omitting that Link, you brought your own comments under suspicion.
I too would be interested in the site that “Maplewood Voter” is referencing. Earlier tonight I took MadDog’s advice from 9/10 and checked out JohnNephew’s blog regarding Dave Hafner’s video. I did not get the impression that Hafner would knowingly misrepresent the facts about anything or anyone.
However, while I was there, I saw a very interesting video that Mr. Nephew apparently thought was – and I quote “a pretty revealing snapshot of Mayor Longrie’s character.” Since Ms. Longrie is running for mayor, I was very interested in seeing what Mr. Nephew thought was so damning. I encourage everyone to watch this very short video. It appears as if her only (or at least her worst) crime was knowing something that the other council members were ignorant of. To me, the more telling content is the inane comments being made (in the background – listen closely) by council members Juenemann, Rossback and Nephew.
This short video is so symbolic of what’s wrong with Maplewood’s government. It is an excellent example of why we need Ken Smart, DelRay Rokke, and Dave Hafner to bring civility, order and fiscal reason back to our city.
Did you ever play the game when you were a child where you whispered something to the next person and then they in turn did it to the next, etc., and the last person would tell the entire room about the secret. Much of what gets posted on the internet is like the info coming the last person in the room. I would suspect this allegation about a website involving Hafner is much the same and the person mentioning it here is just playing the game to see if it will impact the campaign in some way.
It is interesting see how these games are played to try destroy the credibility of anyone who challenges the the good ol boys and girls network that has had a grip on this city for the last half century. When will people have enough to actually get out and vote for someone like SMART ROCKY and HAFNER who will make positive changes for the betterment of all the citizens?
As someone who also has watched the vidieos linked to Nephew’s site and compared them to his comments I am amazed that we have a council member who has such an ability to distort the truth and facts. In the latest one about Hafner he implies that Dave is lying when he said his proposed tax statement showed a $22.00 increase becuse he did the research and the real final tax increase was $24.69 (both unrelated to the city portion of his bill which actually decreased) and he basically called this the biggest tax increase in history as well. His other examples about Hafner were just as distorted, so I think it is best to just not believe much or any of what that blog has to say about anyone–including the author of it.
Just a response about whether or not I knew that Dave Hafner and Erik Hjelle knowing each other. Of course this is something I know about – the two live not far from each other and both have firefighting experience.
That does not mean that I knew Erik before I filed and I want to restate that Erik was not behind forming our team of Dave, DelRay and I. We formed a team because we believe in teamwork and believe that is something that voters want.
Also, the circle of people I know in Maplewood is different from the circle of people that DelRay knows and that is different from the cirlce of people Dave knows. That is the power of networking, diversity and teamwork!! We intend to represent ALL citizen taxpayers of Maplewood – we are not going to be sympathetic to the usual special interests.
We share core philosophies of fiscal discipline, service to citizen taxpayers and individual private property rights – and the idea we need to bring teamwork and leadership to city hall.
I am concerned that some people are trying to smear Dave’s reputation with inaccurate characterizations of Dave. He is creative, intelligent, passionate. For some to misuse Dave’s passion and try to characterize it as anger does a disservice to Dave and to the citizen taxpayers of Maplewood. If you take time to research, you will find him very well reasoned.
Dear “Lots of Fun”: I know what you mean. As a child, we played “grapevine” or “Telegraph” and it was lots of fun. We are adults now! I agree with “Still Learning”: if you can’t come up with the actual website that you claim Hafner is responsible for – and the evidence to prove he’s behind it – then SHUT UP. I have no time for rumors, innuendos or lies. I have no time for the grapevine game.
It’s interesting that – as children – this WAS a form of networking. But now, as responsible adults, our “networking games” should look a little more like what Ken Smart is talking about in his 9/14 blog. Yes – he knows Dave, and Dave knows Eric, and Eric knows me, and I know Alan, and Alan knows ….
But here’s the difference: Numbers. I am a part of a group that reads this blog and is waiting for “Maplewood Voter” to validate his suspicious claims. I’ll admit that my circle isn’t that big (maybe 15 people). But I know that each of my friends has 10 or 20 acquaintances that read this blog. I don’t know – but I suspect – each of those acquaintances knows another 10 or 20 people who live in Maplewood and are also “Still Learning”. In other words – Maplewood Voter – backup your accusations against Hafner and influence 3,000 voters (15×15x15) or your silence will convince 3,000 voters that Hafner IS THE BEST CHOICE FOR A 2010 council member.
I don’t know about grapevines; and Blogs are frustrating me more and more. (see my post on 9/10 regarding Nephew’s lame attempts to discredit Hafner.)
Forget the blogs and the hearsay. Watch the Mayor’s Forum from Sept 11th. This is just seven folks telling you their opinions with no intervention, no spin, no misinterpretation:
9/14 – 9:30 AM Channel 19
9/14 – 11:00 AM Channel 16
9/14 – 7:00 PM Channel 19
9/15 – 12:00 AM Channel 16
9/15 – 4:00 AM Channel 16
9/15 – 3:00 PM Channel 19
9/15 – 12:00PM Channel 16
If you are a Maplewood citizen and taxpayer concerned about the future of our city – listen and compare the mayoral candidates and their opinions about Maplewood’s financial condition.
Check out DelRay’s comments in his Filing Statement at this website. (Review Jeff Bartol’s comments in his 9/6 blog that verify everything that Rokke stands for). These are the dismal facts about our city’s debt. Nobody questions them as fact.
BUT – Will Rossbach thinks they are “GOOD … A NORMAL PART OF BUSINESS … MUCH LOWER THAN MOST CITY GOVERNMENTS”. I do not want to prejudice your opinion. Review for yourself what Rossbach says. Compare that with Ken Smart’s statements. Compare both candidates with that of the other 5. I think you will find that Ken Smart is the most fiscally responsible candidate for mayor that we have.
Please watch one of the forums replays. Formulate your own opinions. I hope to submit one more post to this site that explains why MadDog can no longer accept a passive approach to our city’s debt.
I was trying to fit my schedule into one of the replay listings provided by MadDog when I stumbled across Councilman John Nephew’s blog that is PROVIDING THE WHOLE THING ON HIS SITE – if you haven’t seen it, check it out – and THANK YOU John!
I have to be blunt. I am a fiscal conservative: I don’t much care what individuals do on their own property. (i.e. burn wood or not? ) I do care what politicians do with MY money. As a fiscal conservative, I strive to never spend more than I bring in. My wife and I have a budget and we try to live within that budget. There may be extenuating circumstances that might justify our spending beyond our financial ability – but it hasn’t happened yet in our 35 years of marriage.
We live within our means. We associate with people that live within their means. We do not “borrow” to get out of debt, and we don’t know any one that does. In a worse case scenario we could payoff all personal debt within 6 months – can the city of Maplewood make the same claim?
I point this out for both Mr. Rossbach and Mr. Koplan. You need to understand my interpretation of fiscal responsibility. Because both of your comments on the Mayoral Forum indicate that you believe that it’s okay to spend money that you don’t have. With all due respect, I HAVE TO DISAGREE – that is not okay.
Jeff Bartol
Jeff Bartol says “In a worse case scenario we could payoff all personal debt within 6 months – can the city of Maplewood make the same claim?” Does that include your house? Do your kids have college loans? My dad paid cash for his house in 1940, and he was not a rich man. He was conservative. But most people can’t do that. Most people have mortgages and home improvement and educational loans. And cities can’t pay cash for new roads and infratructure. Debt isn’t evil. It’s the proper management of income and expenses, including servicing debt, that makes for responsible government. If Maplewood got rid of all it’s debt, we couldn’t build or fix or improve much, and we’d have people moving out in droves. Maplewood’s problem isn’t its debt, its the disfunctional divisions in the city. And that’s not going to be solved by anger and sniping. Rossbach and Koplan sounded smart and responsible in the forum. Smart sounded good too. I thought they were the only three that sounded “mayoral,” and I’d rank them in that order – Rossbach, then Koplan, then Smart.
Nice try. . .we are honored that you would Ken in the top three whoever you might have the order reversed the way it looks. and you might have to put Cardinal or even Longrie in somewhere ahead of Will too. Nevertheless we enjoy your company on the blog and I hope you have a good learning experience while here.
You should nkow this, but just in-case other readers do not I will point-out just who Howard Beale is as listed on wiki.
Howard Beale is a fictional character from the movie Network (1976). He is played by Peter Finch (who won a posthumous Oscar for the role).
In the movie, Beale struggles with depression and insanity, but his producers, rather than give him the medical help he needs, use him as a tool for getting higher ratings.
Thank you to everyone taking time to vote and consider DelRay, Dave and I today. We need every single vote of our supporters. And a special thanks to everyone of you that has helped our team – maybe a lawn sign, perhaps talking to neighbor, a lawn sign, making a phone call, hosting a neighbor get together – whatever it is, it is a great help and we sincerely appreciate it.
A brief comment on last night’s council meeting – I have not hidden I am a fiscal conservative. And I spoke in favor of a 0% levy increase for 2010 – the council voted for an increase of course.
But I got animated at one point when Rossbach told me flat out that I was wrong and the Social Security COLA increase for our senior citzens has been set at 0% for 2010 and 2011. Rossbach knowingly lied when he disputed my comments or he is simply so out of touch, he does not know the inflation rate – no wonder some city employees received raises of almost 10% in the past year!
The fact is that inflation has been zero and the Social Security Administration has announced that the COLA for social security recipients is 0% for both 2010 and 2011.
Rossbach and I often have different opinions and I do not mind debating these, but facts are facts. It is time we held people accountable to facts and the consequences of their actions. If they do not know some basic economic facts, how can we trust them to lead our city?
Just to doccument a source for the social security COLA for 2010 and 2011 – please see May 4, 2009 New York Times – good article explaining this. Also suggests that our senior citizens may not see any COLA increase until their January 2013 checks!!
And due to medical premiums, most senior citizens will actually have lower social security checks for the next three years!! Yet Rossbach and Juennemann think we need to continue raising the tax levy.
Just for the record, this is not just an issue for senior citizens. I suspect many of us, like me, have not received any pay increase for the past 18 months. Others of us have probably seen a reduction. And unfortunately some of us have been laid off. Some of our elected officials just don’t get it.
In response to Howard Beal (or whoever you are), I do agree. The first problem we need to resolve – in your words:
“… isn’t its debt, its the disfunctional divisions in the city. And that’s not going to be solved by anger and sniping. Rossbach and Koplan sounded smart and responsible in the forum.”
On the forum, everyone sounded smart and responsible. I’ve seen the sniping that’s been going on for the last decade. I honestly believe that Will, Marv, Bob and Diana are good people; I believe that some of them have some of the skills to be a good mayor. I believe there is one candidate, however, that has the best chance of getting the entire council to pull in the same, positive direction and put an end to the silly dysfunctional sniping and anger.
He has no party or union affiliation. He has no obligations to campaign backers, he has no mistakes or enemies in his civic past. He can get things done – including the SECOND biggest problem – Maplewood’s debt. AND HIS NANE IS KEN SMART. And the same goes for Rokke and Hafner.
Last night while Dave and I were out campaigning I got a call from a concerned supporter stating that some person had gotten-up at the city council meeting visitor presentations and made all kinds of allegations about Dave just the night before the primary. Great response Mayor Longrie! That this was allowed on the eve of an election without objection or being stopped by you is all the more reason to replace the entire Council.
It was apparently a neighbor of Dave’s who was there and told a story about an encounter that was nothing but allegations. I knew about the set-up for this because Dave had told me about some signs in his neighborhood which had disappeared. I was talking to him on the phone as he was replacing them one evening. He said it may have been a neighbor between the two signs who took them because all the other signs in the neighborhood were still there.
Later that night he called to tell me that while he was out there putting up replacement signs the man who spoke at the council meeting last night had driven-up and told him that he had taken the first two signs and when Dave asked if he could have them back, he told him “They are mine now!” so Dave mentioned that stealing signs was against the law. That is when the neighbor called the police to try and justify his own criminal behavior. So Dave called them as well to report the stolen signs. That is essentially what happened as reported to me that night.
Now we see that he has since put two signs in his yard for another Mayoral Candidate, Rossbach, and has decided to further cause damage to Mr. Hafner by telling a story at the city council meeting. I can only wonder who is behind this and whether it was all planned from the start by some politicians in this town.
Nevertheless, Dave went to the Council Mweeting to reply to the allegations during the discussion on city ordinances, and at the break he told the Mayor that he wanted to talk during that time but they voted to not cover that item on the agenda. Dave got up to speak just before the end of the meeting, but the Mayor just slammed the gavel and did not allow him to make even a midnight reply. Shame on you Mayor Longrie. Dave should have been given the chance to speak about the extreme allegations you allowed to be presented earlier in the evening.
Oh, I didn’t forget your other challenges, Mr. Beal. Debt is a mindset. Please do not take what I’m about to say personally or as a criticism. Our culture (and that of most developed counties’) is a culture or a mindset of DEBT. We need to change that mindset.
If you are in the majority and have agreed to a 30 year mortgage, then in 30 years you will have paid – not the price of your home BUT – 225% THE VALUE OF YOUR HOME. However, the average American will move (sell & buy their home) every 7 years. And after 7 years of mortgage payments you have barely dented the principle; all 84 payments have gone to INTEREST; they’ve gone to THE BANK. (This may not represent you, Mr. Beal, but it is our nation’s average.)
Did you know that home owners in England and Australia NEVER think in terms of a 30 year mortgage. Their mortgages average 7 to 10 years in length. If you didn’t know this and you don’t know how this works – check it out. This blog is not the appropriate forum. (I have one year left on my 7 year mortgage.)
I have never taken out a home improvement loan. My wife and I agree that if we want to fix or improve or upgrade, and we don’t have it in savings, we start to put that money away until we can pay cash for that project. Interesting concept – eh Mr. Beal.
“In Savings”. Have you heard of that Mr. Beal? This country doesn’t seem to understand what a savings account is for: that rainy day. The furnace dies; it needs to be replaced immediately; we fix it from money “in savings”. Interesting concept – eh Mr. Beal.
I never took out a loan to pay for my education at the U of M; nor my wifes’ at St. Kates, nor my three children’s at the U and community collages. We pay as we go. Interesting concept – eh Mr. Beal.
You say that:
“… most people can’t do that. Most people have mortgages and home improvement and educational loans.”
It’s a mindset Mr. Beal. I don’t care if most people THINK they can’t do that. I – WE – EXPECT OUR GOVERNMENTS TO. Maplewood is in debt 76-million dollars and many cities may be worse off than that. All these MN cities are looking to our state government to bail them out. But Minnesota is also in debt! Mr. Beal would say that’s okay because MN is not as far in debt as most other states; and he’d be right. California, Illinois, Michigan, Florida, New York, and many, many others are far more in debt than MN. And they (and we) are asking the Federal government to bail us out – right Mr. Bail … um I mean Mr. Beal?
Does anyone think that our federal government can bail anyone, any state, any city, or any other country out of their financial problems? The US government is almost 12 TRILLION dollars in debt – and growing.
Wait one moment Mr. Bill. I know what you’re going to say: “Yes, the US is in debt but our debt needs to be viewed in perspective to our income – our GDP. In other words – and most experts agree – examine the ratio between Debt and Gross Domestic Product. And Mr. Beal would be right. The US is not as bad as most countries. There current standings are ranked below:
Japan $7.47 T in debt 170.4% of GDP
Italy $1.89 T in debt 103.7% of GDP
India $2.55 T in debt 78.0% of GDP
France $1.40 T in debt 67.0% of GDP
Germany $1.79 T in debt 62.6% of GDP
Canada $814 B in debt 62.3% of GDP
U.S. $8.68 T in debt 60.8% of GDP
U.K. $1.05 T in debt 47.2% of GDP
China $370 B in debt 23.0% of GDP
Russia $151 B in debt 6.8% of GDP
One question to take away – if every country, every state, every city and every citizen is in debt – THEN WHO ISN’T? The house of cards will come tumbling down, Mr. Beal. We’d better start preparing for that now. Get your finances in order, and help us get OUR city’s finances in order. VOTE SMART!!
We have all probably accessed, read, and possibly responded to many blogs in the last few years. It seems that blogging is where its’ at nowdays.
I just wanted to drop a line to give credit to the Smart/Hafner/Rokke blog site. It truly has been the most professional and informational blog that I have seen, and it has provided the dependable source of information that the citizens have been clamoring for with regard to Maplewood politics. Many citizens have asked for some substance to their questions and were consistently frustrated over the lack of real information and answers. The SMART team has delivered. Thanks for answering our prayers. And keep the civil discourse coming. Maybe there actually is a chance for real and constructive change in Maplewood!
Some of us might be influenced by the opinion of one of the current Maplewood council members. Should John Nephew influence your opinion? He seems to be very impressed with Will Rossbach and his electronic bill board message at the intersection of Hwy 36 and White Bear Ave. (See his blog at johnnephew.com)
Personally, I am not the least bit impressed with an electronic bill board. I am concerned for the future of Maplewood. I want to see a Mayor that can restore our city’s pride and fiscal integrity. I do not understand Mr. Nephew’s logic choosing Rossbach as his Mayoral choice. Nor does Mr. Nephew offer any substancial reason to back his choices for city council members (Juenemann & Llanas).
Come on, John, stop insulting the good people of Maplewood. The clear choice is Smart, Rokke and Hafner. If you don’t understand why – respond on this blog and I’ll take the time to educate you.
Jeff Bartol wrote “please do not take what I’m about to say personally or as a criticism.” Not at all. I think the conversation is healthy. And I’m glad to see we agree that not all debt is bad. I thought you might have exagerated when you suggested that you could pay your debt in 6 months. That might be more accurate as you near the end of your mortgage (congratulations, by the way), but it’s unlikely you could do that early in your mortgage.
You sound like you handle your personal debt well, and I respect and applaud that. But it is true that lots of responsible people could not get houses or higher education without taking on debt. And it’s not necessary wrong to do so. My nephew’s recent medical degree was made possible by work and saving – his dad’s and his (It’s not a foreign term to me or to many others) – and debt. He reduced the monetary debt by joining the Army Reserves, and he’s paying that “debt” now in Iraq. He’ll be paying the monetary debt for years. He never could have saved the tens of thousands needed for med school without debt. Should doctors ( or lawyers, or architects, or engineers) only come from rich families? I don’t think so, and if you admitted it to yourself, I don’t think you would either.
So I get back to my earlier point. Debt isn’t evil. What’s important is the responsible managing and reduction of debt. You mention Maplewood’s debt. Maplewood could not provide the services and amenities it’s citizens – you and I among them – insist on without taking on debt. John Wykoff seemed to complain in the Mayoral Forum that Maplewood was wasting money on curbs and gutters. Managing road quality and water runoff is pretty important to most of us. Was the debt used for roads? parks? schools? public safety infrastructure? And how is it being serviced? Looking at recent property tax increases – not large by metropolitan standards, i don’t think it’s been so bad. Getting rid of the bickering at City Hall and making it more professional should help. And I’m not convinced that Dave Hafner would be the best person for that role. By the way, I haven’t heard any reports of impending bankrupcy for the City of Maplewood along the lines of Orange County some years ago. But these are good discussion to have.
You kind of lost me on the leap to national debt and GDP. Are you suggesting, in your chart, that Russia and China, two communist countries, have the strongest economic models? If you’re using debt as a % of GDP as a measuring stick, then that seems to be the conclusion. No thanks. I’ll take our system over theirs any day, and I think our economy is far stronger than theirs. I think everyone on this blog would agree. So I think we’re better off just sticking to the facts and specifics here in Maplewood rather than trying to create that kind of a leap in logic. Responsible management doesn’t require a Chicken Little reaction.
I obviously did loose ‘Howard Beal’ with my last paragraph that brought attention to not just our city’s debt, but that of our state, country and some of the largest economies of the world.
Howard, I presented a list of cold, hard economic facts. I made no reference to communism or any other form of government. YOU made that erroneous leap of logic – not me. I do agree that we should try to stick to the facts; but I’m not sure that limiting our concerns strictly to Maplewood is wise. At some point, some citizens are going to have to stand up and say “I’m mad as hell and I’m not going to take it anymore”. Are you telling me, Mr. Beal, that those citizens shouldn’t come from Maplewood?
I am sympathetic to you and much of what you’re saying about “justifiable debt”. I suspect we all have a different definition of what that might be. The purpose of my original post was not to banish all debt nor condemn those that borrow money responsibly. My intent was to encourage citizens to examine their own “Mindset” or attitude regarding debt.
Maybe it’s as simple as an “Exit Strategy”. If you have a 30-year mortgage, you know that in 30 years – your debt will be paid and you’ll own your home. If you need a student loan to become an engineer, you can repay that loan because you’ll be making an engineer’s salary. These are exit strategies and perhaps justifiable debt.
Washington has just announced a budget plan that will put this country 9 Trillion dollars further in debt over the next 10 years. This plan doesn’t even touch the outstanding 12 Trillion we already owe. This is NOT an exit strategy. To me, this is not an justifiable debt.
Maplewood has less and less developable land; the growth of our revenue base is somewhat limited. If, in the past, we weren’t able to pay our bills without going $76 Million dollars in debt, what is going to change to enable us to pay the same (nay – increasing) bills, AND start to pay down that $76M?
Mr. Beal, don’t insult me or your readers by claiming that Jeff is now suggesting that we develop our green spaces to payoff our debt. I did not say that, nor do I advocate that. I guess, what I’m trying to say is just this:
At the Mayor’s Forum last Friday – and really throughout this entire election, a group of candidates have been touting “their years experience and contributions”. Well all experiences are not a good thing, and some contributions (like to our debt) are also not a good thing. Cardinal, Koppen, Rossbach, Juenemann, and Longrie have all directly or indirectly contributed to our debt – all have been a part of the problem. We need a new team that can be a part of the solution – we need the SMART team.
Well, I just saw the results of the primary. If these figures are correct, then it means the Maplewood voters want the incumbents back, they want more of the same, they want to see our $76,000,000 debt continue to grow, they want to see more bickering and unprofessional behavior.
Mr. Beal, you were right and I was wrong about the citizens of Maplewood.
And, I AM STILL MAD AS HELL.